Far Server [Dis]Connections (And other remote server stuff)

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Draegonis
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Far Server [Dis]Connections (And other remote server stuff)

Post by Draegonis »

Hola,
I've had a good look through all the snomasks and have given myself everyone of them avaliable, but I still don't get notices when servers that are not directly linked to the one I am on, split from the rest of the network (well, bar the flood of quit notices in a channel). No servers except services are U:Lined. What am I missing here?
Cheers.
Last edited by Draegonis on Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
w00t
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Post by w00t »

I don't believe they *do* generate notices, although, they should...

@coders: is this intended behaviour?
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katsklaw
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Post by katsklaw »

In a split situation you will not get a disconnect snotice because the client didn't actually disconnect .. the server did.

Which causes the server to issue a SQUIT message instead of a client quit.
w00t
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Post by w00t »

What he means is that none of the OTHER servers issue a "server quitted snotice thingy (tm)," unless its linked directly to his local server.
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Draegonis
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Post by Draegonis »

w00t wrote:What he means is that none of the OTHER servers issue a "server quitted snotice thingy (tm)," unless its linked directly to his local server.
Indeed. If the server it directly connected the server i'm currently on and splits, i'll get the error messages (Eg: No response from blah, closing link). However, if the server is not directly connected to the server i'm on (my server <-> hub <-> server that's splitting), then I wont get any kind of error message when it splits.

Totally unrelated, but another few issues about remote serves, sorted in order of importance:
1) Why can't you, even as an Op/Admin, see the idle time of users not on the server you're currently on?
2) Why oh why is a special "([leaf.domain.tld] Local kill by Oper (msg))" message for clients you kill on your own server, but a good old fashioned "(Killed (Oper (Msg)))" notification for kills on remote servers? There is probably some good reason, but I can't see it - and it's really bugging me having such an inconsistancy in the kill messages
3) When a user connects to the local server, you get the port number. You don't get this on remote servers.
4) Another inconsitency thing - very minor indeed, but still (anyone wanting me to take these to bugs. btw?), square brackets are used for local connect notifications (class type) and for quit notifications (quit message), but normal brackets are used for remote connections/disconnections.

I'm finished now.
Honestly.
WilliamWIkked
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Post by WilliamWIkked »

coughcodeyourownircdthencough

=)
[insert another cliche sig here.]
Draegonis
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Post by Draegonis »

WilliamWIkked wrote:coughcodeyourownircdthencough

=)
I'm hardly asking that the moon revolve around my middle finger. I'm asking if there are reasons for these, and if not, would it be simple enough to have them changed, perchance, in the next version? They hardly seem huge issues to change, but i've seen equally minor notes in the changelog.
katsklaw
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Post by katsklaw »

Draegonis wrote: Totally unrelated, but another few issues about remote serves, sorted in order of importance:
1) Why can't you, even as an Op/Admin, see the idle time of users not on the server you're currently on?
This is because when you /whois a user using /whois nick the reply comes from the server you are on .. not the server THEY are on (unless they are the same). IRCd's work that way in general .. not just Unreal. To force a idle/connection time in a whois try:

Code: Select all

/whois nick nick
2) Why oh why is a special "([leaf.domain.tld] Local kill by Oper (msg))" message for clients you kill on your own server, but a good old fashioned "(Killed (Oper (Msg)))" notification for kills on remote servers? There is probably some good reason, but I can't see it - and it's really bugging me having such an inconsistancy in the kill messages
Because that's the way it's coded.
3) When a user connects to the local server, you get the port number. You don't get this on remote servers.
Because that's the way it's coded.
4) Another inconsitency thing - very minor indeed, but still (anyone wanting me to take these to bugs. btw?), square brackets are used for local connect notifications (class type) and for quit notifications (quit message), but normal brackets are used for remote connections/disconnections.
Because that's the way it's coded.

I'm not going to tell you to write your own IRCd, but to understand exactlly why things happen as they do .. you should try it sometime. :D

Also, as a general rule just because one person suggests something won't make it appear in the next version. If the request is stupid/hard to code/breaks code elsewhere/just out right not possible/not worth the time it takes to code it .. it most likely won't happen.
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Post by Draegonis »

katsklaw wrote:This is because when you /whois a user using /whois nick the reply comes from the server you are on .. not the server THEY are on (unless they are the same). IRCd's work that way in general .. not just Unreal. To force a idle/connection time in a whois try:

Code: Select all

/whois nick nick
Thanks, yeah. That got the idle time. However, it's not all IRCds that do that. At the very least, Dancer will give you an away time for remote servers.
Because that's the way it's coded.

I'm not going to tell you to write your own IRCd, but to understand exactlly why things happen as they do .. you should try it sometime. :D
"Because" is hardly a reason for me to go out and write an entire IRCd. Again, i'm not making any demands here. I'm asking if there are any valid reasons why it is like this, and if there is any reason why it could not be altered. If the devs wanna say no, then they say no and it's the end of that.
Also, as a general rule just because one person suggests something won't make it appear in the next version. If the request is stupid/hard to code/breaks code elsewhere/just out right not possible/not worth the time it takes to code it .. it most likely won't happen.
Sorry to be nitpicky, but what happens when only one guy spots a bug/idea that a dev actually wishes to pick up on? I'm not levering an excuse for all my wishes to be incorporated here, I just feel i'm perhaps being judged a little harshly here. I know how annoyed devs get when people start getting all pissy about missing features, small discrepancies, bugs etc when they haven't actually been notified first.
As far as my non-coding mind can tell, none of my above issues should be particularly hard for someone who knows what they are doing to change them, nor are they vastly obscure or otherwise mad. A simple case of some consistency in certain areas, and additional functionality (the whois thingy) that i've seen a lot of my own users certinally complain about.

However, I do see the original issue that I brought up as the biggest, and I would be rather upset if that was ignored. I'm sure one could bring one's mind to imagine the possibile issues of not recieving an error message _at all_.

Thanks.
katsklaw
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Post by katsklaw »

Draegonis wrote:
katsklaw wrote:This is because when you /whois a user using /whois nick the reply comes from the server you are on .. not the server THEY are on (unless they are the same). IRCd's work that way in general .. not just Unreal. To force a idle/connection time in a whois try:

Code: Select all

/whois nick nick
Thanks, yeah. That got the idle time. However, it's not all IRCds that do that. At the very least, Dancer will give you an away time for remote servers.
I have yet to play with Dancer. However, this is the first I've heard of an IRC that does it.

I guess what I was hinting at before was that coders code what they want ... release it .. and if they get alot of feedback as for one specific thing, then they may or may not change it. It really is the coders project. When projects are coded for free such as Unreal, Bahamut or any other GPL licensed project .. it's provided 'As-Is' and that term has several meanings. Sure it's nice to have a web board where the coders can interact with users and users with other users. However, that is all a luxury. There is absolutely nothing stating that it has to be done.

Take Bahamut for example. Bahamut is coded for DALnet .. period. Sure they have a mailing list and what not .. but if your feature don't benefit DALnet .. you can forget it being added. I'm sure that the Bahamut coders could really care less if it compiled on RedHat .. why? .. because DALnet requires it's servers to run FreeBSD only. So Bahamut was written for FreeBSD.

So yes, 'because' is a valid reason. I'm not saying that you can't get answers for your unanswered questions. I'm not an Unreal coder nor a staff member so that's not up to me. I'm simply stating that it's not required of them to.
Draegonis
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Post by Draegonis »

katsklaw wrote:I have yet to play with Dancer. However, this is the first I've heard of an IRC that does it.

I guess what I was hinting at before was that coders code what they want ... release it .. and if they get alot of feedback as for one specific thing, then they may or may not change it. It really is the coders project. When projects are coded for free such as Unreal, Bahamut or any other GPL licensed project .. it's provided 'As-Is' and that term has several meanings. Sure it's nice to have a web board where the coders can interact with users and users with other users. However, that is all a luxury. There is absolutely nothing stating that it has to be done.

Take Bahamut for example. Bahamut is coded for DALnet .. period. Sure they have a mailing list and what not .. but if your feature don't benefit DALnet .. you can forget it being added. I'm sure that the Bahamut coders could really care less if it compiled on RedHat .. why? .. because DALnet requires it's servers to run FreeBSD only. So Bahamut was written for FreeBSD.

So yes, 'because' is a valid reason. I'm not saying that you can't get answers for your unanswered questions. I'm not an Unreal coder nor a staff member so that's not up to me. I'm simply stating that it's not required of them to.
I'm sorry, but your analogy is unbelievably flawed. UnrealIRCd isn't coded specifically for DALnet or Undernet or EFNet or Freenode. It's a standalone IRCd. Sure the devs will do what they want, but you're completely missing my point. I'm giving feedback. It's up to them whether or not they take it on board and use it or not. If no feedback was given on a product ever, take a gander in your imagination as to how completely and utterly crap it would be.
Again (how many times do I need to say this?), i'm not asking that Unreal takes on a completely new slant to its coding style, i'm not asking that they suddenly jump up and incorporate services to the package. I'm taking complaints from my own users, and adding a few points that I see as being important, and one or two points that are minor, agreed, but I feel wouldn't take a huge amount of effort to change, but would clean up the slight inconcistancy in some areas. Nothing biblical here.
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Post by katsklaw »

Actually I do understand your point, better than some others would. I've done user support for projects like Unreal for several years. Please forgive me though I sometimes lack the words to efficiantly express my meanings without explaining things a few times. Your "next version" comment actually triggered me explain what I have so far.

I was in no way trying to make you feel llike you was treated harshly, quiet the oppsite actually. You see, not everyone that asks for features or tweaks .. whichever name you wish to call them, understands that such things were coded per the coders desires and in some cases actually and literally expect to see their features in the "next version". Such users rarely understand the time it takes to code such things and may even get offended if their idea(s)/feature(s) were not added.

Since there are many many more users that think the way I described than those that are simply making suggestions as you have, then quite naturally my initial response should be expected.
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Post by Draegonis »

Yeah, I can understand the frustration of seeing such hideous demands or completley un-thought out requests - I see some pretty bad ones on a daily basis working for phpBB. I just hope a dev gives this topic an eye over and pops in their take of my suggestions/requests. :)
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