Unnecessary change?

myrddin · Post by **myrddin** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 4:48 am

UnrealIRCD 3.2.3 Changes File wrote: - Changed numeric&text of 'is a Secure Connection' to 'is using a Secure Connection', client coders are encouraged to add support for this new numeric 671. Until then, in-window-/whois's will probably be broken.

This is just my opinion, which doesn't matter to most people anyway, but the above change to the latest UnrealIRCd is very lame, and really unnecessary.

Could someone explain to me why it was done?

Caedmon · Post by **Caedmon** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 5:16 am

Dunno on the numeric, but the text was for better grammer it seems.

Why does it even matter? 99% of the people won't care.. Only the ones who use fluffy whois things and junk. Works fine for me

myrddin · Post by **myrddin** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 8:33 am

Caedmon wrote:Dunno on the numeric, but the text was for better grammer it seems.

Why does it even matter? 99% of the people won't care.. Only the ones who use fluffy whois things and junk. Works fine for me

Well then I guess I'm your 1% that care.
Why does it matter? Because now there's clients that don't know what to do with this new numeric until the developer(s) add support for it, and broken scripts, because someone complained about it being grammatically incorrect.

Caedmon · Post by **Caedmon** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:05 am

I'm using an old version of XChat and it shows the numeric fine.. I still don't see the problem?

And just as proof.

Code: Select all

* [Ed] ([email protected]): Ed
* Ed :is using modes +iowghraAsxNWztG +kcfFjveGnqSsJ
* [Ed] is a registered nick
* [Ed] #YouthFire @#lobby @#Discuss #services @#help #groundednchrist 
* [Ed] is a Network Administrator
* Ed :is available for help.
* Ed :is using a Secure Connection
* [Ed] bounces
* [Ed] idle 00:02:54, signon: Wed Mar 16 01:39:59
* [Ed] End of WHOIS list.

If it shows fine here, it'll show fine in mIRC.. Only thing that'll be broken is ths scripts where whois output is modified, or goes to a separate window. And with that being the case, it's hardly the developer of the IRCds problem.
[/code]

Post by **Syzop** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 3:51 pm

I suppose nobody with criticism had the great idea of reading the Changes file ?? .. :P

Code: Select all

- Changed the 'is a Secure Connection' msg/numeric in /whois from RPL_WHOISSPECIAL to
  a slightly changed RPL_WHOISSECURE, namely: ':%s 671 %s %s :is using a Secure connection',
  I'm sure some client coders will bitch at this, but the current way is brok in 2 ways:
  - RPL_WHOISSPECIAL is meant for 1 line of additional whois info, usually an IRCOp title or
    description. Having a dedicated numeric for it allows for client-side interpretations
    and/or translations.
  - The 'is a Secure Connection' was incorrect English, this has been reported numerous times.
  The PRO's of this change are clear, the only CON is that in-window-/whois's are now
  likely not to show this line properly in-window but rather in the status window, until client
  coders implement this numeric.
  If you wonder why we didn't use RPL_USINGSSL, that's because this numeric collides with
  RPL_STATSDLINE (which we are already using for >5 years).
  If you wonder why we didn't use the RPL_WHOISSECURE numeric as-is (even though I haven't
  seen it in use anywhere), then that's because we wanted to minimize display problems in
  the transition period and the extra parameter would not be used by us anyway.

So the old way was messy and incorrect. A fix has been queued for over a year, until we finally decided to actually do it for 3.2.3 -- we are not going to keep all kind of broken behavior just because clients/scripts don't want to update, and as mentioned.. in the long turn it actually HELPS them :).

Ron2K · Post by **Ron2K** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 5:45 pm

kucha wrote:I dunno what kind of policy here is not to share older versions, that's lame I think.

RTFM.
(FAQ #66 - Why is running an old UnrealIRCd version bad?)

myrddin · Post by **myrddin** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:46 pm

Syzop wrote:I suppose nobody with criticism had the great idea of reading the Changes file ?? ..

Code: Select all

- Changed the 'is a Secure Connection' msg/numeric in /whois from RPL_WHOISSPECIAL to
  a slightly changed RPL_WHOISSECURE, namely: ':%s 671 %s %s :is using a Secure connection',
  I'm sure some client coders will bitch at this, but the current way is brok in 2 ways:
  - RPL_WHOISSPECIAL is meant for 1 line of additional whois info, usually an IRCOp title or
    description. Having a dedicated numeric for it allows for client-side interpretations
    and/or translations.
  - The 'is a Secure Connection' was incorrect English, this has been reported numerous times.
  The PRO's of this change are clear, the only CON is that in-window-/whois's are now
  likely not to show this line properly in-window but rather in the status window, until client
  coders implement this numeric.
  If you wonder why we didn't use RPL_USINGSSL, that's because this numeric collides with
  RPL_STATSDLINE (which we are already using for >5 years).
  If you wonder why we didn't use the RPL_WHOISSECURE numeric as-is (even though I haven't
  seen it in use anywhere), then that's because we wanted to minimize display problems in
  the transition period and the extra parameter would not be used by us anyway.

So the old way was messy and incorrect. A fix has been queued for over a year, until we finally decided to actually do it for 3.2.3 -- we are not going to keep all kind of broken behavior just because clients/scripts don't want to update, and as mentioned.. in the long turn it actually HELPS them

.

That's all I wanted to hear =)
And no, I didn't read the changes file because I don't use UnrealIRCd.
I saw mention of the numeric change in the release notes and went from there.

Yea, still not cool that clients and scripts will be broken, but at least there IS a good reason behind it.

Takumi · Post by **Takumi** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:08 am

kucha wrote:In my opinion, the 3.2.3 version contains very unuseful 'cosmetic'. So I'm going to stick with 3.2.2 version on all my servers at least until the next release.. Thank god I've managed to get a fresh tar of 3.2.2 I dunno what kind of policy here is not to share older versions, that's lame I think.

I am particularly font of +j and +I as well as being able to excempt ops in a room but.. your choice. i know theres a +j module.

Alot of developers do not share older versions. They are progressing because of bugs and 'cosmetic' errors. If you had a choice between windows 2000 and windows xp would you not change because the only real apperently difference is 'cosmetic' .... no thats just what you happen to see the most. There are some other pro's to doing so as well (Bad example i know XP... Windows.. sucks)

codemastr · Post by **codemastr** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:31 am

myrddin wrote:This is just my opinion, which doesn't matter to most people anyway, but the above change to the latest UnrealIRCd is very lame, and really unnecessary.

Could someone explain to me why it was done?

In addition to what Syzop said, I'd also like to point out that I personally have had at least 10 different users come and ask for the text to be changed. So it might seem unimportant to you, but it really did bother some people.

myrddin · Post by **myrddin** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:10 am

codemastr wrote: In addition to what Syzop said, I'd also like to point out that I personally have had at least 10 different users come and ask for the text to be changed. So it might seem unimportant to you, but it really did bother some people.

Point taken.

I asked why, and I was told.
Thank you both for clarifying things.

r3mbr4ndt · Post by **r3mbr4ndt** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:59 pm

There is a simple scripting work-around for this in mIRC, but it would be nice if mIRC implemented it built-in...

Code: Select all

raw 379:*: { echo -a $2- | halt }
raw 671:*: { echo -a $2- | halt }

Takumi · Post by **Takumi** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 8:52 am

Time to go pester Khaled Mardam-Bey

RandomNumber · Post by **RandomNumber** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 7:00 am

Takumi wrote:Time to go pester Khaled Mardam-Bey

http://trout.snt.utwente.nl/ubbthreads/ ... e=0#120603
done and done

UnrealIRCd Forums

Unnecessary change?

Unnecessary change?

Re: Unnecessary change?

Re: Unnecessary change?