Abandoned?

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Eman
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Abandoned?

Post by Eman » Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:22 am

I've been a long time user of unreal, It has served me quite well for the last 4 years now. However I'm beginning to get concerned. Its been over a year since the last release and there are still a few irritating bugs... my intent is not to complain, but just to know that we havent been abandoned.

Thanks

Jobe
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Re: Abandoned?

Post by Jobe » Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:18 am

Have said irritating bugs been reported?

And do you even pay ANY attention to the bug tracker where there is a lot of activity?
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SpaceDoG
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Re: Abandoned?

Post by SpaceDoG » Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:08 am

No Unreal hasn't been abandoned. Remember it is frequently stated that Unreal like many other FREE open source projects is manned by VOLUNTEERS WHO DON'T GET PAID. That's right. The program you love so much is free because people don't get paid and have lives outside the project. If you want better/faster results try the donation link on the front page.

vsnine
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Re: Abandoned?

Post by vsnine » Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:20 pm

How about some more constructive criticism from a "Official Supporter", instead of flames?

Looking at the forums, there doesn't seem to be alot of activity in most of the boards. I understand that VOLUNTEERS DON'T GET PAID, and people have lives, but there hasn't been a news posting on the main page since February. It would be nice to hear more about how the project is progressing, and not see it get stale.

I really don't think Eman was trying to offend.

(What about a bugsquashing day?)

Eman
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Re: Abandoned?

Post by Eman » Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:37 pm

i love how i ask a simple question on the future of unreal and out comes the open source race card. with support like this, im surprised that anyone still uses unreal.

zimmy
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Re: Abandoned?

Post by zimmy » Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:59 pm

When's the last time ConferenceRoom or any of those proprietary IRCX "compliant" servers have ever been updated? Yeah, you can't play the Open Source card here at all. And here's why..

InspIRCd, in the past 4 months released 1.1.21, 1.2a6, froze 1.2, and and released 2 1.2 betas.
The ircd-ratbox team is working on summing up ratbox-3.0 which brings SSL to EFNet, among other enhancements (espically to libratbox).
Freenode's dev team is crunching away on ircd-seven, and in turn working rather close to the charybdis developers (which it was derived from) to sync changes among the 2 ircd's.
Undernet's coder-com last released a stable ircu in December of 07, and while it's an old release two facts remain: #1 I see no stable relase of Unreal on or after July 17th, and #2 that ircu has proven stability and scalabilty, as ircu or ircu-derived ircd's are used on Undernet and QuakeNet, the top 2 irc networks according to SearchIRC.
And as This SearchIRC topic states, the 3.3 dev branch is on a developers private computer, and not a public repo. If you want to show progress, let the public see it.

Long story short, either admit that your ircd is dead, or stop smoking the meth long enough to release an upgrade.

I should also add that ShadowIRCd has been brought back to life as a charybdis-based ircd and has recently released 5.0RC2. git repo

Jobe
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Re: Abandoned?

Post by Jobe » Sat Nov 08, 2008 1:26 pm

zimmy wrote:Long story short, either admit that your ircd is dead, or stop smoking the meth long enough to release an upgrade.
I'm sorry to burst your bubble but none of your argument proved anything even near to being able to say UnrealIRCd is dead. UnrealIRCd is FAR from dead.

No changes doesn't mean it's dead. It just means the people who have the access TO make changes haven't had the time to do so. So lets put this into perspective for you, if you were the only developer on a project, and you suddenly had family issues or whatever that prevented you from doing any work on your project for 7 months, does that mean your project is dead? No it doesn't.

If you wan;t the UnrealIRCd developers to work on this project all the time, how about YOU pay them so they don't have to work. They only spend what little free time they have on the project, and even then it's voluntary.

Here's another project for you to add to your list of so called dead projects, that's even managed to go years past the length of time Unreal has with no updates, and is STILL not dead, because they've released again even after a few years), try Epona IRC services.

Release frequency is NOT an indicator of a dead project. Never has been, never will be. So my advice to you is wake up and smell reality. People have lives, and when it comes to open source projects who's developers do NOT get paid to work on them, you CANNOT expect them to work on it every freaking day, and if they don't call the project dead.
zimmy wrote:And as This SearchIRC topic states, the 3.3 dev branch is on a developers private computer, and not a public repo. If you want to show progress, let the public see it.
Oh and for the record, you CAN access the Unreal 3.3 repo. You only have to search google to find it. The Unreal dev's cant help it if you cant manage something as simple as that. In fact going by their repo's dates, Unreal4 is MORE dead then Unreal 3.3, with 7 months on 3.3 and 10 on 4. Still doesn't mean either are dead. What WILL determine when they're dead, is when the developers ALL decide it's dead and stop trying hard to find a few minutes here and there to do some work on the project.

So long story short, either accept you're wrong, or quit trolling.
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zimmy
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Re: Abandoned?

Post by zimmy » Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:25 pm

Jobe: I don't think you know who I am, but I know who you are :P. I've been told by reputable people in the ircd industry that you think anything that's not unreal (or anope but that's beyond the scope of this topic) is trash. I personally prefer using an ircd that is not trash, like charybdis for example.

That said, let me reverse your process and burst YOUR bubble:

I'm talking for myself here but I'm 100% sure there's many, many other people who share the same ideas: People want software that is frequently maintained. If the devs have personal issues in their life, I fully support putting that ahead of voluntary open source development. However, in the same sense, you shouldn't keep people waiting around for new releases, it's not good, and I'm telling you that from experience.

There's a lot of OSS projects that do NOT rely on donations to see that development continues, atheme-services for example, rarely a donation yet they somehow managed to be chosen to be services for a 50,000 user network. I'm not going to pay for some developers star trek dvd collection and cell phone bill and I don't think many people will either.

Speaking of epona, when you figure in how many people use it, it's pretty much dead, because of the lack of releases. Sure they have some nice concepts in their newest versions (Live SQL for one) people have moved on to better packages. Sort of like IRCServices.

Last thing I want to add is, I don't care that i can search google to find the 3.3 repos. I don't care what you think of me, because i can easily outsmart you and I don't need a huge botnet to make you feel like shit.

CoreDuo
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Re: Abandoned?

Post by CoreDuo » Sat Nov 08, 2008 7:45 pm

Long detailed posts aren't needed to bring out the simple matter of fact that if more than one person complains about it, they obviously aren't happy with the current product, regardless of if its stable or not. People wanting a new stable release and are not willing to build from SVN knowing that it's probably unstable, generally are shot down right here on this forum using the same "Open Source software time prioritizing" excuse.

To be brutally honest, its probably not long before we're all banned and this topic is locked and forgotten about.

Jobe
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Re: Abandoned?

Post by Jobe » Sun Nov 09, 2008 10:30 am

zimmy wrote:Jobe: I don't think you know who I am, but I know who you are :P. I've been told by reputable people in the ircd industry that you think anything that's not unreal (or anope but that's beyond the scope of this topic) is trash. I personally prefer using an ircd that is not trash, like charybdis for example.
Let me clear up a few little lies you've been told that make you think you know who I am, because if you believe them, then you do NOT know who I am.

A) I do NOT think IRCd's other then UnrealIRCd are trash
B) I do NOT think services other then Anope are trash
C) with those 2 points in mind you really do NOT know me at all.

In fact to add insult to injury with regards to the lie you've been told, I don't even use UnrealIRCd on the network I run. I use an IRCd and services I develop for, Nefarious and X3. As for other IRCd's I like, they include but are not limited to hybrid, ratbox and ircu at the least. As for services, even though I'm an Anope QA, I have been seen to openly say Anope isn't the best services package in Anope's OWN official support channel.

So with all that in mind, I suggest you re-evaluate just how "reputable" the people who told you those lies are if they can't even get simple facts right because that's really not a reputable thing to be doing now is it.

As for your outsmart comment, A) I don't nor will I ever have a bot net, B) if you are so good at outsmarting me, why did you fall into the trap of believing lies about me because that's really not a smart thing to do now is it? C) as for making me feel like shit, you've failed miserably so far, but qudos on the effort you've wasted in trying to do so.
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zimmy
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Re: Abandoned?

Post by zimmy » Sun Nov 09, 2008 2:55 pm

Jobe, I can't seem to find any commits by you in netfarious, netfarious2, or X3 with the exception of some documentation. Wonderful development!

Jobe
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Re: Abandoned?

Post by Jobe » Sun Nov 09, 2008 3:30 pm

Try looking harder next time......

http://cia.vc/stats/project/evilnet

Now since you're intent on trolling, I'm going to leave you to this thread.
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CoreDuo
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Re: Abandoned?

Post by CoreDuo » Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:20 pm

Now that this is completely OFF TOPIC, it's a matter of who's trolling who now.

Stealth
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Re: Abandoned?

Post by Stealth » Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:57 pm

UnrealIRCd is NOT dead. It's as simple as that.

Here's the flaws in everyone's argument, and very simple responses:
  • "Other IRCds are actively working and releasing..." Yes, it is indeed true that other IRCds are actively releasing and preparing for releases. However, it is hardly fair to compare one project to another. There are variables in EVERY project, different staff members doing different things in life, more or less contributors, more or less bugs to squash, etc.
  • "People want software that is frequently maintained" This is not true in every case. There are many non-maintained or projects with very little maintenance being widely used. For a couple of simple examples: ResourceHacker (last updated 2002, no longer maintained, closed source); PuTTY (open source, last release April 2007, still developed).
  • "There's a lot of OSS projects that do NOT rely on donations" In reality, many do. Projects need hosting (web/IRC/mail), shells for testing, and in some cases donations of hardware for further development of their software. Many software projects like to have a shell on the most popular operating systems, which is quite costly when added together. Unreal currently gets web and email donated, but we do need shells to test the software on. At $10/shell for cheap ones, getting a shell on HP-UX, FreeBSD, Debian, and Fedora alone is $40/month - that's $480 each year. You also need to consider domains. Unreal has at least 3 domains, which probably cost about $30/year combined. In short: the money has to come from somewhere, and the development staff can't always afford it.
  • "There are still a few irritating bugs" If they are not reported on http://bugs.unrealircd.com, they are unlikely to get fixed. Along with posting them, it would help if a patch were also provided.
  • "The 3.3 dev branch is on a developers private computer" That is indeed true. Some people might wonder why, and here it is: There is only 1 3.3 developer, and 3.3 is a complete recode. Currently nate does not have the time or resources to work on Unreal. 3.3 will be moved to a public CVS or SVN server as soon as the base is operable or when there are more C++ coders wanting to work on it.
I'm locking this topic. Do not start another one.

If you want to help contribute to 3.2, please submit a patch to bugs.unrealircd.com. If you want to contribute to 3.3, please message me on irc.unrealircd.com.

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